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The Informer – May 2026 Edition
The Informer Newsletter May 2026 Edition Welcome Welcome to The Informer, the monthly essential newsletter for ODS-Cs and aspiring Cancer Registry professionals. Packed with specially curated educational opportunities, industry updates, and practical resources, our goal is to keep you informed and equipped to excel in this vital field. Don’t miss an edition-scroll to the bottom of this page to…
The Informer – April 2026 Edition
The Informer Newsletter April 2026 Edition Welcome Welcome to The Informer, the monthly essential newsletter for ODS-Cs and aspiring Cancer Registry professionals. Packed with specially curated educational opportunities, industry updates, and practical resources, our goal is to keep you informed and equipped to excel in this vital field. Don’t miss an edition-scroll to the bottom of this page to…
Accounts Receivable in Healthcare: Smart Strategies to Boost Your Collections
Effective revenue cycle management is a cornerstone of financial stability for healthcare organizations. As volumes and regulatory demands keep growing, it becomes more difficult to sustain positive cash flow. Reimbursement delays, denied claims, and ineffective billing practices tend to lead to backlogs that impact performance. Accounts receivable in healthcare requires intelligent, proactive solutions that maximize…
Why Healthcare BPO Companies Are Revolutionizing the Industry and How You Benefit?
The healthcare industry faces increasing challenges in managing complex administrative tasks, from billing to compliance tracking. By outsourcing these functions to specialized partners, organizations can reduce inefficiencies and redirect their focus toward delivering quality patient care. Healthcare BPO companies ensure resources are allocated where they are most needed—at the point of care—while allowing experts to…
The Evolution of Healthcare Revenue Cycle Services: Key Trends for Your Success
Healthcare continues to transform under the influence of advancing technology, regulatory changes, and shifting patient expectations. At the center of this transformation lies the revenue cycle, the financial backbone of every healthcare organization. Effective management of healthcare revenue cycle services provides stability for organizations while still providing quality care. Strong revenue cycle processes beyond financial…
Healthcare Revenue Recovery: How We Help You Turn Denials into Profit
Revenue cycle integrity is one of the most important aspects of sustaining financial health in healthcare organizations. Claim denials can significantly erode profitability, disrupt operations, and place undue stress on both staff and patients. While denials may seem inevitable, proactive measures can minimize their occurrence and reduce financial losses. Effective healthcare revenue recovery involves not…
Mastering Medical AR Management: Simple Tips for Better Cash Flow
Effective financial management in healthcare organizations is not just about collecting payments; it is about maintaining a consistent and predictable cash flow. Reimbursement delays, improper claims, and wasteful processes can create barriers impacting an organization’s capacity to treat patients. With effective strategies, providers can better manage their revenue cycle and enhance financial stability. Medical AR…
The Future of Health Information Management: What It Means for Your Organization
Healthcare is rapidly evolving, and with it, the methods by which organizations manage patient data and operational information are also changing. Technology, compliance requirements, and patient expectations are reshaping how records are stored, accessed, and analyzed. The future of health information management lies in systems that are not only efficient but also responsive to the…
The Role of Clinical Documentation Improvement in Elevating Your Healthcare Outcomes
Accurate, complete, and timely documentation serves as the backbone of effective healthcare delivery. It directly impacts patient care, regulatory compliance, and the financial health of organizations. With greater complexity in medical records and reporting demands, healthcare systems are giving top priority to measures that support clinical documentation improvement and maximize outcomes. Sound documentation practices promote…
Denials Management 101: Strategies to Protect Your Bottom Line
Revenue cycle integrity is one of the most important aspects of sustaining financial health in healthcare organizations. Claim denials can significantly erode profitability, disrupt operations, and place undue stress on both staff and patients. While denials may seem inevitable, proactive measures can minimize their occurrence and reduce financial losses. Denials management is not merely a…
Case Studies
Revenue cycle optimization improves net revenue through sustainable improvements
Revenue cycle optimization improves net revenue through sustainable improvements. Case Study Revenue cycle optimization improves net revenue through sustainable improvements. Decreased revenue and increased denials were a problem for this west coast acute care provider with 350+ beds and $1.1B NPR. Contributing to the reduced cash flow were authorization backlogs, billing inconsistencies and inferior workflow…
Savista revitalizes client’s revenue cycle operations through an expert workforce
Savista revitalizes client’s revenue cycle operations through an expert workforce. Case Study Savista revitalizes client’s revenue cycle operations through an expert workforce. Staffing shortages, high turnover rates, insufficiently trained employees and soaring labor costs are plaguing healthcare providers. This combined with increased work volume and outdated workflows, make a business office prone to errors in…
Optimization eliminates redundancy and improves performance
Optimization eliminates redundancy and improves performance. Case Study Optimization eliminates redundancy and improves performance. A high functioning patient accounting system (PAS) drives revenue by producing accurate bills that are paid promptly. It promotes accurate registrations, streamlines bill submission, upholds compliance mandates, and supports a provider’s financial stability. When your PAS capabilities are not maximized, too…
Aged AR accounts collected at a rate triple the industry average
Aged AR accounts collected at a rate triple the industry average. Case Study Aged AR accounts collected at a rate triple the industry average. This 3-hospital system with a $1B NPR had a combined hospital and physician accounts receivable inventory >365 days of 6,400 accounts valued at $2.7M. Considered uncollectible and poised for write-off, the…
90% of Inventory Resolved Through Small Balance Recovery
90% of Inventory Resolved Through Small Balance Recovery Case Study Small balance recovery partnership resolves 90% of inventory and significantly increases revenue. A 5,500-bed, multi-state system with $6.7B NPR experienced growing AR days and frustrated staff due to high account volume that restricted their ability to analyze payer issues, reimbursement delays and denial reasons. A…
AR outsourcing partnership revitalizes revenue cycle operations and increases cash
AR outsourcing partnership revitalizes revenue cycle operations and increases cash. Case Study AR outsourcing partnership revitalizes revenue cycle operations and increases cash. This client with 215 beds and $277M NPR was a long-term partner that needed to revitalize operations and increase cash. Job loss due to the pandemic left their region with above average unemployment…
Nationally recognized academic medical center sees 35% improvement in denial write-offs with outsourcing.
Nationally recognized academic medical center sees 35% improvement in denial write-offs with outsourcing. Case Study Nationally recognized academic medical center sees 35% improvement in denial write-offs with outsourcing. A physicians’ group for an 885-bed, $2.5B NPR academic medical center experienced a growing patient liability population resulting in a rise in uncompensated care, denial write-offs and…
Academic health system exceeds cash goal with streamlined revenue cycle
Academic health system exceeds cash goal with streamlined revenue cycle. Case Study Academic health system exceeds cash goal with streamlined revenue cycle. An academic health system with 2,700+ beds and $5.15B NPR experienced decreasing profit margin and cash flow from declining patient revenue, putting their financial health at risk. Bottom-line impact from a system conversion,…
Client clears backlog of abstraction and follow-up cases with Cancer Registry partnership
Client clears backlog of abstraction and follow-upcases with Cancer Registry partnership. Case Study Client clears backlog of abstraction and follow-up cases with Cancer Registry partnership. This academic health system with >1,000 beds and $2.9B NPR had a 12-month abstraction backlog and could not retain the resources needed to maintain timely completion. Confronted with a Commission…
Holistic CDM management protects revenue and compliance
Holistic CDM management protects revenue and compliance. Case Study Holistic CDM management protects revenue and compliance. A 25-bed, $32M NPR western critical access hospital lacked the resources, and expertise to perform routine CDM maintenance, evaluate market prices, and transition to a new PAS, leaving a critical gap in the organization’s revenue integrity program. Download the…
CDM standardization provides defensible charge practices and revenue neutrality during a multi-facility system conversion
CDM standardization provides defensible charge practices and revenue neutrality during a multi-facility system conversion. Case Study CDM standardization provides defensible charge practices and revenue neutrality during a multi-facility system conversion. IDN client with $15B+ NPR needed to transition 88 facilities with disparate chargemasters to Epic, a radically different structure, over a three-year time frame. Download…
“Auditing the auditor” uncovers a need for revenue cycle education and process improvement
“Auditing the auditor” uncovers a need for coding education and process improvement. Case Study “Auditing the auditor” uncovers a need for revenue cycle education and process improvement. A Midwest IDN client with 1,200 beds and $1.8B NPR was experiencing decreased coding accuracy and productivity, negatively impacting financial performance. Reliance on internal QA processes and a…
Partner leverages coding partnership expertise to mitigate compliance risk
Partner leverages coding partnership expertise to mitigate compliance risk. Case Study Partner leverages medical coding partnership expertise to mitigate compliance risk. A routine third-party audit reported high ER Evaluation & Management (E/M) error rates for an acute care hospital with 182 beds and $313M NPR. Incorrect reporting of these errors would skew current revenue and…
Client reduces AR days by 36% in 120 days
Client reduces AR days by 36% in 120 days. Case Study Client reduces AR days by 36% in 120 days. This 47-bed acute care hospital battled delayed reimbursement and missed revenue due to coding accuracy and productivity. They saw an increase of coding-related denials and lower-than-anticipated reimbursement levels. Coders had limited access to training resources…
Acute care facility leverages expert resources to successfully appeal clinical denials
Acute care facility leverages expert resources to successfully appeal clinical denials. Case Study Acute care facility leverages expert resources to successfully appeal clinical denials. A 200-bed, $509M NPR client lacked resources able to review and resolve their large volume of denials, nor did they possess the skill set to determine plausibility of certain clinical appeals.…
Safety net system transforms denial backlog into $20M+ gain
Safety net system transforms denial backlog into $20M+ gain. Case Study Safety net system transforms denial backlog into $20M+ gain. This 800-bed, $532M NPR safety net system struggled with retaining the resources needed to address an immense denial backlog and lacked visibility into their root causes. This threatened cash collections and financial viability of the…
High-touch provider for complex populations reduces ineligible Medicaid dollars by 97%
High-touch provider for complex populations reduces ineligible Medicaid dollars by 97%. Case Study High-touch provider for complex populations reduces ineligible Medicaid dollars by 97%. BrightSpring, a complex care provider who assists clients residing in intermediate care facilities and/or receiving home-based services, saw a climbing number of ineligible Medicaid clients. This forced the client to write…
Non-profit system uses Epic optimization to improve enrollment process for patient eligibility
Non-profit system uses Epic optimization to improve enrollment process for patient eligibility. Case Study Non-profit system uses Epic optimization to improve enrollment process for patient eligibility. Jefferson Health, 607-bed, three hospital system experienced patient interview delays, slowed account conversion and increased risk of error when attempting to secure coverage for under and uninsured patients. Eligibility…
Medicaid eligibility conversion and collections improved by optimizing enrollment processes
Medicaid eligibility conversion and collections improved by optimizing enrollment processes. Case Study Medicaid eligibility conversion and collections improved by optimizing enrollment processes. For this academic health system of 1,104 beds and $1.8B NPR, Medicaid eligibility processes were highly manual and workflow had not been assessed since their Epic transition. This resulted in fewer conversions, less…
Outsourcing partnership transforms HIM-related KPIs and reduces DNFC by 83%
Outsourcing partnership transforms HIM-relatedKPIs and reduces DNFC by 83%. Case Study Outsourcing partnership transforms HIM-related KPIs and reduces DNFC by 83%. What problems can revenue cycle management outsourcing solve? This 478-bed health system struggled with essential HIM performance metrics. The department had a sustained record completion backlog, ongoing troubles with coding quality and production, as…
Client transforms HIM KPIs and DNFC by 66% and continues to sustain improvements
Client transforms HIM KPIs and DNFC by 66% and continues to sustain improvements. Case Study Client transforms HIM KPIs and DNFC by 66% and continues to sustain improvements. This 25-bed critical access hospital with $130M NPR was not meeting their financial KPIs following an EMR implementation. They battled with inaccurate record filing, a backlog of…
Patient and physician satisfaction improved with patient access transformation
Patient and physician satisfaction improved with patient access transformation. Case Study Patient and physician satisfaction improved with patient access transformation. Inconsistent and ineffective patient access processes affected revenue and timely service delivery for this acute care facility with 407 beds and $273M NPR. Incomplete registrations, lack of coverage verification, authorization and financial clearance prior to…
Healthcare system collects $21.3M in underpayments with payment variance partnership
Healthcare system collects $21.3M in underpayments with payment variance partnership. Case Study Healthcare system collects $21.3M in underpayments with payment variance partnership. A healthcare system sought to maximize yield from insurance payers to maintain financial health. Increasingly complex managed care contracts, downgraded DRGs and billing and payer discrepancies resulted in lower-than-expected reimbursement. Download the Case…
Client increases cash collections during height of the pandemic with strategic AR support
Client increases cash collections during height of the pandemic with strategic AR support. Case Study Client increases cash collections during height of the pandemic with strategic AR support. An acute, safety net system of 323 beds and $532M NPR was experiencing a revenue decline and a growing volume of at-risk patients. The pandemic had eroded…
Provider eliminates cost, drives revenue, and optimizes Epic technology through data analytics
Provider eliminates cost, drives revenue, and optimizes Epic technology through data analytics. Case Study Provider eliminates cost, drives revenue, and optimizes Epic technology through data analytics. An academic medical center of 330 beds and $700M+ NPR experienced growing self-pay inventory, increased days to pay, and decreased payment volume and amount despite census stability. They sought…
Client collects an additional $5M while increasing patient satisfaction
Client collects an additional $5M while increasing patient satisfaction. Case Study Client collects an additional $5M while increasing patient satisfaction. This client of 402 beds and $647M NPR needed to improve balanceafter insurance, self-pay collections. The patient experience and self-paycollection rate was faulting partially due to confusing statements and thepatient payment system. Download the Case…
Back-end integration creates streamlined, best practice recovery processes
Back-end integration creates streamlined, best practice recovery processes. Case Study Back-end integration creates streamlined, best practice recovery processes. Poor patient communication and inconsistent statement delivery at this 571-bed system led to declining revenue, poor patient satisfaction and demoralized customer service staff. They needed healthcare revenue cycle expertise to oversee the entire patient responsibility inventory, improve…
Patient access crisis drives innovation
Patient access crisis drives innovation. Case Study Patient access crisis drives innovation. Covid-19 incited a meteoric rise in emergency room visits. This surge in patients necessitated additional staff, increased registration efforts, and expanded follow-up services at the same time the pandemic created staff shortages and state mandated restrictions in onsite patient interactions. Fueling the obstacles,…
CDM compliance and strategic pricing supports revenue goals
CDM compliance and strategic pricing supports revenue goals. Case Study CDM compliance and strategic pricing supports revenue goals. Savista set out to reallocate $85M while ensuring defensibility of charges, maintaining gross revenue neutrality and optimizing net revenue. CDMadjustments needed to comply with industry standards and federal regulations and drive strategic benchmarking. Our revenue cycle management…
Webinars/Videos
Articles
The Informer – May 2026 Edition
The Informer Newsletter May 2026 Edition Welcome Welcome to The Informer, the monthly essential newsletter for ODS-Cs and aspiring Cancer Registry professionals. Packed with specially curated educational opportunities, industry updates, and practical resources, our goal is to keep you informed and equipped to excel in this vital field. Don’t miss an edition-scroll to the bottom of this page to…
The Informer – April 2026 Edition
The Informer Newsletter April 2026 Edition Welcome Welcome to The Informer, the monthly essential newsletter for ODS-Cs and aspiring Cancer Registry professionals. Packed with specially curated educational opportunities, industry updates, and practical resources, our goal is to keep you informed and equipped to excel in this vital field. Don’t miss an edition-scroll to the bottom of this page to…
Accounts Receivable in Healthcare: Smart Strategies to Boost Your Collections
Effective revenue cycle management is a cornerstone of financial stability for healthcare organizations. As volumes and regulatory demands keep growing, it becomes more difficult to sustain positive cash flow. Reimbursement delays, denied claims, and ineffective billing practices tend to lead to backlogs that impact performance. Accounts receivable in healthcare requires intelligent, proactive solutions that maximize…
Why Healthcare BPO Companies Are Revolutionizing the Industry and How You Benefit?
The healthcare industry faces increasing challenges in managing complex administrative tasks, from billing to compliance tracking. By outsourcing these functions to specialized partners, organizations can reduce inefficiencies and redirect their focus toward delivering quality patient care. Healthcare BPO companies ensure resources are allocated where they are most needed—at the point of care—while allowing experts to…
The Evolution of Healthcare Revenue Cycle Services: Key Trends for Your Success
Healthcare continues to transform under the influence of advancing technology, regulatory changes, and shifting patient expectations. At the center of this transformation lies the revenue cycle, the financial backbone of every healthcare organization. Effective management of healthcare revenue cycle services provides stability for organizations while still providing quality care. Strong revenue cycle processes beyond financial…
Healthcare Revenue Recovery: How We Help You Turn Denials into Profit
Revenue cycle integrity is one of the most important aspects of sustaining financial health in healthcare organizations. Claim denials can significantly erode profitability, disrupt operations, and place undue stress on both staff and patients. While denials may seem inevitable, proactive measures can minimize their occurrence and reduce financial losses. Effective healthcare revenue recovery involves not…
Mastering Medical AR Management: Simple Tips for Better Cash Flow
Effective financial management in healthcare organizations is not just about collecting payments; it is about maintaining a consistent and predictable cash flow. Reimbursement delays, improper claims, and wasteful processes can create barriers impacting an organization’s capacity to treat patients. With effective strategies, providers can better manage their revenue cycle and enhance financial stability. Medical AR…
The Future of Health Information Management: What It Means for Your Organization
Healthcare is rapidly evolving, and with it, the methods by which organizations manage patient data and operational information are also changing. Technology, compliance requirements, and patient expectations are reshaping how records are stored, accessed, and analyzed. The future of health information management lies in systems that are not only efficient but also responsive to the…
The Role of Clinical Documentation Improvement in Elevating Your Healthcare Outcomes
Accurate, complete, and timely documentation serves as the backbone of effective healthcare delivery. It directly impacts patient care, regulatory compliance, and the financial health of organizations. With greater complexity in medical records and reporting demands, healthcare systems are giving top priority to measures that support clinical documentation improvement and maximize outcomes. Sound documentation practices promote…
Denials Management 101: Strategies to Protect Your Bottom Line
Revenue cycle integrity is one of the most important aspects of sustaining financial health in healthcare organizations. Claim denials can significantly erode profitability, disrupt operations, and place undue stress on both staff and patients. While denials may seem inevitable, proactive measures can minimize their occurrence and reduce financial losses. Denials management is not merely a…
Post #3905
Navigating Forward delivers actionable insights and practical strategies that empower revenue cycle management (RCM) leaders to drive efficiency and innovation. This forward-thinking content addresses industry challenges, delivering insights and solutions that help leaders stay ahead in an evolving healthcare landscape. Explore practical tools and ideas to transform operations and achieve sustainable success for your organization’s…
Predictions for the Future of Healthcare in 2025
Predictions for the Future of Healthcare in 2025 ALPHARETTA, GEORGIA | December 09, 2024 As the new year approaches, we are reflecting on the state of the healthcare industry today and want to share our predictions for the future of healthcare in 2025 and beyond. The healthcare industry has undergone dynamic shifts in…
HFMA Webinar: Leveraging AI and Automation to Improve Patient Engagement
Leveraging AI and Automation to Improve Patient Engagement
Navigating Global Outsourcing in Revenue Cycle: The Benefits and Potential Challenges
Navigating Global Outsourcing in Revenue Cycle: The Benefits and Potential Challenges Have you ever considered outsourcing some or all of your revenue cycle functions? Don’t know where to start? In this webinar with the Healthcare Financial Management Association (HFMA), our Chief Strategy Officer, Laxmi Patel, discusses the benefits and challenges of global outsourcing. She is…
The Critical Role of Low Dollar Accounts Receivables Recovery in Healthcare Revenue Cycle Management
In the intricate landscape of healthcare finance, the recovery of low dollar accounts receivables emerges as a silent hero, wielding significant influence on the overall health of the revenue cycle.
Three Pillars To Managing Low-Dollar AR
If a primary care practice is avoiding management of low-dollar accounts receivables (AR), the first question to ask is: Why?
Optimizing Healthcare Revenue Cycle: The Role of Low Dollar Accounts Receivable Recovery
In the complex web of healthcare finance, one crucial element often overlooked is the management of low balance accounts receivable.
New Revenue Cycle Partnerships: Ensuring Success If Conducting Remote Assessments
New Revenue Cycle Partnerships: Ensuring Success If Conducting Remote Assessments Healthcare providers across the U.S. are losing billions of dollars annually due to revenue cycle inefficiencies. Many organizations are opting to partner with a revenue cycle services organization to minimize revenue gaps and improve their bottom line. Once a revenue cycle partner is selected, a…
7 Steps to Success in Proactive Denials Management and Prevention
7 Steps to Success in Proactive Denials Management and Prevention Kyle Sherseth | Vice President – Revenue Cycle Solutions In 2021, denials rose to an average 11% of all claims, with the cost of denials increasing 67% year over year1. This translates to 110,000 unpaid claims for an average-sized health system. It’s no…
Optimizing the Healthcare Revenue Cycle with Emerging Tech
Optimizing the Healthcare Revenue Cycle with Emerging Tech John Hataway | Senior Director – Continuous Improvement & Automation The healthcare revenue cycle historically, and in all too many cases presently, has relied heavily on manual processes and paper-based systems. This is a labor-intensive, time-consuming method prone to errors. Gradually, we’ve seen digitalization such…
Use Cases and Risks for AI, Blockchain and Predictive Analytics in the Healthcare Revenue Cycle
Use Cases and Risks for AI, Blockchain and Predictive Analytics in the Healthcare Revenue Cycle This article was originally published in Healthcare Business Today John Hataway | Senior Director – Continuous Improvement & Automation The future of the healthcare revenue cycle involves leveraging emerging technology while maintaining the human-centric element of healthcare.…
Savista’s 2024 Healthcare Industry Outlook
Savista’s 2024 Healthcare Industry Outlook ALPHARETTA, GEORGIA | December 13, 2023 Savista has unveiled its top 2024 predictions for the healthcare industry. Serving as a partner to hospitals, systems, and physician practices for more than 30 years, Savista’s deep bench of experts-from CEO Jan Grimm to Chief Strategy Officer Laxmi Patel and Vice…
Demystifying the Revenue Cycle: Becker’s Healthcare Podcast
Beckers Podcast: Demystifying the Revenue Cycle Listen to this Becker’s Healthcare Podcast interview with our Chief Operating Officer, Brett Palmer, and Adrienne Moore, Vice President of Revenue Cycle at Banner Health, as they discuss how Banner Health is effectively tackling revenue cycle challenges. Watch More See All Webinars
HIM Director Reflects on EHR Conversion A Year After Go-Live
HIM Director Reflects on EHR Conversion A Year After Go-Live Interviewees: Shannon Maio (CSD) | Senior Director, Client Success Kris Knight | Vice President, Clinical Documentation Tammy Stratton | HIM Director EHRs are a valuable tool for healthcare organizations, but when considering adoption and achieving the desired benefits, the failure rate can…
Revolutionizing the Healthcare Revenue Cycle: The Crucial Role of Interoperability Standards and AI
Revolutionizing the Healthcare Revenue Cycle: The Crucial Role of Interoperability Standards and AI Laxmi Patel | Chief Strategy Officer As originally published in Medical Economics In the ever-evolving landscape of healthcare, the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) has emerged as a transformative force, holding the promise of revolutionizing patient care, diagnosis, and treatment.…
Globalization: The Power of Global Centers of Excellence in the Revenue Cycle
The Power of Global Centers of Excellence in the Revenue Cycle Laxmi Patel | Chief Strategy Officer Given the financial and staffing challenges healthcare is facing today, globalization is here, and it’s here to stay. Globalization has gotten a bad rap for many years, but when fully understood and employed in the right…
Your EHR is the Most Powerful Tool You Have: Steps to Getting the Most Out of your Epic Investment
Your EHR is the Most Powerful Tool You Have: Steps to Getting the Most Out of your Epic Investment Laxmi Patel | Chief Strategy Officer Epic has changed the face of healthcare; becoming the one source of truth and reporting for many organizations. It provides a wide range of comprehensive functionalities across patient experience,…
Finding Balance in Patient-Centric RCM
Finding Balance in Patient-Centric RCM Laxmi Patel | Chief Strategy Officer A successful revenue cycle should not be seen as a series of numbers, financial statements, and outcomes. It must encompass the entire patient journey, which should continue to be the central focus and the heart of healthcare. Unfortunately, in pursuit of efficiency and…
Balancing the Use of Automation Within the Healthcare Revenue Cycle
Balancing the Use of Automation Within the Healthcare Revenue Cycle John Hataway | Senior Director – Continuous Improvement & Automation Typically, hearing the terms “Automation or AI” elicits one of two responses– an immediate sense of apprehension and avoidance, or a complete overestimation about its capabilities, though in some cases those two responses go…